Guest: Rick Fisher; Topics: Rick provided us with an historical and present analysis of China and their space program with commentary spilling over into other important areas of our relationship with China.
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We welcomed Rick Fisher to the full Space Show program though he was a Hotel Mars guest a few weeks earlier on Nov. 30, 2022. Rick talked about the Chinese space program, both historically and present day, in great detail. In addition, he talked about Chinese political and economic goals on a global level and how space was to be used to help China achieve these objectives. One more thing. Throughout the program, Rick talked about Chinese space policy, goals, objectives, hardware, all of it, as tools of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and as an implement of the PLA (People's Liberation Army). During our 71 minute program, Rick stressed the risks posed to the U.S. and the west in general by the Chinese space program plus its overall policy.
At the suggestion of John Batchelor, my lead off question for Rick was to ask him about his having attended multiple air shows in China and Russia. Rick detailed the air shows he saw and what he saw, especially with Chinese military items and space hardware. For example, I asked Rick about hearing that China had copied both our F 22 and our latest aircraft carriers. Rick spent a decent amount of time in answering questions about military hardware, specifically fighters, bombers and aircraft carriers. He added in what they have done with the S. China Sea, their plans for Taiwan, and how they carry out espionage, including with their students abroad. At one point Rick was asked about Chinese students in U. S. Colleges. Rick said they were all PLA agents, that China paid top dollar to the schools for their students tuition which is why the American universities and others in the west want to continue having Chinese students at their school. The problem is referred to as Chinese educational fusion. He explained the U.S. policy, why little is done about it despite knowing that espionage is taking place. Universities lobby strongly for these foreign students despite the intelligence risk due to the money being paid them for tuition and other reasons by China. Rick then told us that used to happen in Russia a few years ago. Russia finally got fed up with it and kicked all the Chinese students out of the country and ended their being educated at Russian universities. That has yet to happen with the U.S. and other western nations. For the record, we have also discussed this very same problem with Malcom Davis from Australia on several Space Show programs in addition to many other guests over the years.
Next, we turned specifically to China and their space program. Rick was very complete and very thorough so the best way to do a short summary of discussion points and topics is to refer you to the tags as they highlight what we talked about and for the most part in the order they were discussed. I have, as I have done with other show, repeated the tags below for your convenience.
"Tags: Rick Fisher, Senior Fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, international air shows, China space and air hardware, Russian space and air hardware, F-22, F-35, aircraft carriers, Chinese Communist Party (CCP) goals and objectives, China's development timeline explained, racing to the Moon, China's lack of transparency, China on dual use for all space, Chinese space the PLA, Soviet Union influence, CCP evolve vs. collapse, China and the OST, China and the idea of a Pearl Harbor in space, planned Chinese space missions and concerns, U.S. policy regarding China in space, China and rocket reusability, Long March 9 super heavy, SLS, Starship, mass to orbit, Long March 9 launching goals, commercial companies launching companies in China, US policy priorities for China, China as a cash cow for western and American universities, Musk and SpaceX in China with Tesla, China and Starlink, China announces new single stage Moon lander, the Chinese path to the Moon, Artemis property claims."
Some of the space discussion highlights for me were what Rick said about their lunar plans, their super heavy rocket development and plans for the Long March 9 along with their work on rocket reusability. Understanding the ambitious lunar and space goals in general, including their already orbiting space station was valuable. I urge you to listen to Rick carefully. While I realize some of you may disagree with what you hear, keep in mind I will offer equal time to any listener or a guest yet to be identified who wants to come on the show to present a different picture of China, their goals and ambitions mixed in with their space plans. If you want to be the guest that does that, please email me at drspace@thespaceshow.com for details. If you have a particular guest in mind, please send me the name and contact information and why you think he would be a good guest to present a different view than the one offered us by Rick Fisher. Please remember that The Space Show will air all sides of an issue with the only rule being civility.
On multiple earlier Space Show programs, guests have pointed out the emergence of a few private sector commercial launch companies in China. Rick was asked about them. Rick said the meaning of private or perhaps commercial in China meant that the launcher companies could pursue private funds from alternate sources to the Chinese government. They still had to keep the CCP and PRC abreast of their work, their success, and innovations which became state owned. Private or commercial for launch company in the U.S. means something very different than the same terms for companies in China. I appreciated Rick offering us that clarification.
Before ending this program, a listener sent in a note to ask about Musk, Starlink, SpaceX plus his work in China with Tesla. The listeners, like a lot of us, wanted to know how Musk threaded the needle with Chinese threats of jamming Starlink and his building and expanding Tesla in China. Rick also did not have a clear understanding of this relations, but suggested the window for Musk to resolve so future risks was shortening. He suggested for now it was and see.
Please post your comments/questions for Rick Fisher on our blog for this program. You can reach our guest through the blog or me.
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